When you say you are using couverture so you don't need to temper - do you mean you are using compound chocolate?
Round things are a little harder to enrobe on an enrobing line due to the shape. If you are using chocolate that doesn't require tempering - then I expect a cooling tunnel is less necessary.
Hello everyone,
I own a bakery and we make a ping pong ball sized product that is currently hand dipped in chocolate using, ahem, a spoon. As our volumes (about 2,000 per 8 hour shift) have outpaced this antiquated method we are about to invest in enrobing equipment but really need your expert advice. I am using a couverture chocolate so tempering is not necessary. I simply need to get a nice, even coat on a round product.
I've thought about the Hilliards Compact enrober but want to get ideas on used equipment as well. I'm trying to avoid a cooling tunnel due to costs, hoping that a six to eight foot belt at the end of the enrober will give me enough cooling time at room temp to move these to a tray.
Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Many thanks for the help!!
Steve
I'm interested in purchasing a small machine to increase our current hand/manual only production. This would include the tempering machine, enrober belt, etc. Wondering if anyone is interested in selling their unit?
El Palacio Nacional (which I think is in the same place or right next to the Museum of Anthropology) has some great Diego Rivera friezes that depict the Aztec and Maya history of cacao, unfortunately the best one is in the corner upstairs. Not a great viewing spot.
Mayordomo shops around town, the closest one 2 km away,
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=Norte+3860,+Centro,+72000+Puebla,+Mexico+ (Chocolate+Mayordomo+de+Oaxaca)&daddr=Plaza+de+la+Constituci%C3%B3n+1,+06060+Mexico+City,+Mexico+(Palacio+Nacional)&geocode=FZhYKAEdrM8W-iFTFEI1emVTfw%3BFYprKAEd1owW-iEbSuaAdLTwCg&hl=en&mra=pd&mrcr=0&sll=19.402654,-99.176466&sspn=0.103462,0.115185&ie=UTF8&t=h&z=15
have a good selection of moles and coarse ground chocolate bars. This is the standard Oaxacan drinking chocolate.
I will be in Mexico city for a week, are there interesting chocolate related places? I am planning to visit the Museum of Antropology and El Moro, the hot chocolate place. But perhaps there are classes or something else....Please let me know
Thank you in advance.
Jeff - as someone noted, it's a pretty large topic to cover in a 5 minute web post on Christmas eve 8-) Mass of fermentation, length of ferment, is it co-fermented with something, the type of container used (is a container used?), the degree of aeration, the degree of 'weep' removal, temperature control, type of microorganisms used and when introduced, etc all factor into it. Of course, don't forget that the most important factor is, of course, the bean itself and it's genetic heritage. One of the issues you're dealing with in Indo (and they're legion i'm afraid), is that the majority of the genetic material that has been planted is simply not that good for flavor or fat levels, but it can be a high yielding variant. Of course you've got pod transportation issues, CPB pests, emerging phytophthera issues, and not many people ferment. The majority of indonesian stock can, however, be fermented in such as way as to produce a flavor profile that emulates many other origins - but even so, the fat levels will be depressed.
What's right or wrong? It depends on what you want to get - the question in and of itself is sort of like asking if a red car or a blue car is better 8-)
Same author, and also worth a read, but not the book. Try looking it up on Alibris or abe's books online. Copies do show up from time to time.
I would also recommend checking out more general texts on cacao like Wood & Lass' Cocoa:
http://www.amazon.com/Cocoa-Tropical-Agriculture-Wood-DTA/dp/063206398X
There are some very good reading lists in other threads around the site, so spend some time poking around older discussions as well...
I googled the book and nothing about book came out.
Looks like it's gonna be very hard to find, but well, finger crossed. 
Thank you for the warning.
I am currently learning about chocolate and cocoa.
One thing I've learned is that the quality of beans in Indonesia is below standard(mostly) due to the post-harvest care.
I have a dream to have my very own bean-to-bar chocolate factory in Indonesia.
I realize that it's gonna be time-consuming, that's why I might as well start now.
Do your best to find Arthur Knapp's Cacao Fermentation. I know I've mentioned it elsewhere, but although it's out of print and old, it remains one of the very best resources on the subject.
Be prepared...fermentation and drying together are a truly massive subject, and anybody serious about post harvest processing of cacao is likely to spend an inordinate amount of their time (and probably their entire career) thinking about and refining fermentation and drying processes.
Thank you for the reply.
You mentioned "here are a number of techniques that can be applied to the fermentation itself to direct flavor development"
Can you tell me some of these techniques or any references(books or websites)?
What are the guidelines for the procedures?(e.g appearance of half-cut of beans, level of water, smell,etc)
Do you have any example pictures on how a fermentation or drying is correcly(or wrongly) executed?
So, as you're aware in Indonesia - there's not a huge ingrained culture of heavily fermenting beans - in fact, most of Indonesians don't ferment their beans at all (at least not intentional fermentation, there may be some incidental fermentation occuring during transit).
Different parts of the world have taken on different post-harvest practices. In Africa, 100-300 kg heaps on the ground are common - there's really no 'standard' fermentation time or practice any longer in W. African, i'm sad to say - however historically a 5 day fermentation with routine turning had been the norm. Today, it's all over the map, and is part of what's contributing to the many quality issues arising out of W. Africa.
Many other parts of the world have taken to using boxes - some box fermentation can be found in your neck of the woods actually, although it's rare. C. and S. Americans often use boxes, usually of wood. Plastic boxes have been known to be used in the Carribean routinely. There are a number of techniques that can be applied to the fermentation itself to direct flavor development - for how you choose to ferment your beans has a significant impact on the type of flavor that they produce.
The best way to dry is solar drying, indirect heat. The rate of drying is terribly important to the flavor of the bean as well. Some geographies - such as Malaysia - have taken to burning things as the heat source to dry the beans. This results in what is typically regarded as defect beans, as the beans absorb the resultant odors of whatever's burned. Forced air gas and infrared heaters have also been known to be used. I prefer raised beds with a specific design, covered by opaque fiberglass/plexiglass with open ends to keep the rain out and keep air flow moving myself. The Ivory Coast has, in recent years, installed huge drum dryers at the ports - this has been a terrible thing in my opinion, as it's sent the message to tretants that quality procedures - such as drying at the farm - aren't important. What then happens is that wet beans are moved about the country, resulting in high molds, and then speed dried in a drum (essentially low roasted). If CdI doesn't resolve this - i predict a huge decline in their exports in years to come.
As far as I know, post-harvesting, chocolates are then fermented,dried, sorted, and then bagged. The cacaos are then shipped to factories to be roasted, crushed, conched, tempered, then made to bars.(Correct me if I'm wrong)
What I'm about to ask is the post-harves methods(not the factory processing).
I live in Indonesia, where these things are often neglected or done incorrectly so that the crops are usually bad(not that they're all bad, but most of the bulks are far lower qualities than West African's).
What I am wondering is what are the methods of each those steps?
Like in fermenting, I know that some plantations cover them with plantains, some others uses a cabinet-like thing. Is there other ways/methods of this step?
And in drying, I know that some are sun-dried, and some others are smoked.
Is there other ways/methods?
And what are usually the guidelines of those methods?
Is there a particular signs(cotyledons, degree of dryness,etc) that should be noted during this process?
Hi,
At present I am just a consumer, though an obsessive one. I might be interested a chocolate business in the future, but for now I am just having fun.
Best,
Foodie Doodie
But I know from my experiences with coffee that the molecules are somewhat different among different plants: kola nuts, yerba mate, tea, and even arabica versus robusta coffee all vary in how their xanthinealkaloid effect the CNS.
Just to clarify, the specific methyl xanthine alkaloids (theobromine, caffeine, and theophylline) do not differ in their makeup, but the relative amounts of each differ between all these plants, and between varieties of each plant as stated above with criollo vs. forastero cacao. There has been some claims that yerba mate contains a different xanthine than caffeine, called mateine that is a stereoisomer of caffeine, but this is impossible since a stereoisomer must have an optical or chiral center (one atom in the structure that has 4 different molecules attached to it, so that a mirror image of this chiral center cannotbe rotated back to completely overlap itself), and caffeine most definitely does not have a chiral center.
But there's so many hundreds if not thousands of other compounds in all these plants that could change how they affect your body or how the xanthines are absorbed. This makes arguing about caffeine composition a bit moot. None of the percentages of these other compounds will be marked on chocolatepackaging, and even for the same packaging, ingredients list, and nutrition info, the percentages of these compounds could fluctuate alot.
Lowe asked: "my current understanding is that there is some debate about whether or not cacao seeds actually even contain caffeine. Can you confirm that cacao seeds really do contain caffeine?"
Lowe, according to data collected by Minifie from multiple sources and tabulated on p.21 of "Chocolate, Cocoa, and Confectionery", cocoa nibs contain 0.07-0.7% caffeine. The same table puts the theobromine content of nibs at 0.8-1.4%
Also, Criollo beans have been found to contain more caffeine than Forastero beans (Kaspar, 2006). Furthermore, the theobromine/caffeine ratio has proved to be a clear indicator in differentiating Criollo and Forastero cocoas (INIAP, 2007).
This is interesting because it contradicts the common comparison of Criollo cocoa with Arabica coffee, and Forastero cocoa with Robusta coffee. (One of the characteristic differences between Arabica and Robusta coffees is that Arabica has about half as much caffeine than Robusta).
Hope this helps. You might also like to take a look at our database of scientific abstracts for more references:
http://chocolatereview.com.au/studies/index
References:
Kaspar (2006) "Identification and Quantification of Flavanols and Methylxanthines in Chocolates with Different Percentages of Chocolate Liquor"
Quote from the abstract:
"The Criollo genus resulted in a significantly greater caffeine content in dark chocolate when compared to a product prepared with similar weight percentages of chocolate liquor from the Forastero genus. Conversely, the Forastero genus produced a chocolate that was significantly greater in theobromine when compared to a Criollo product with similar weight percentages of chocolate liquor.
INIAP (2007) "Project to Establish the Physical, Chemical and Organoleptic Parameters to Differentiate between Fine and Bulk Cocoa - PROJECT COMPLETION REPORT"
Quote from the abstract:
"The results of the project clearly indicated that the physical parameters measured had proved to be inconclusive in differentiating fine from bulk cocoas. On the other hand, the theobromine/caffeine ratio had proved to be a clear indicator in differentiating fine cocoa from bulk cocoa."
Lowe:
There is no straight-line answer to this. Cocoa butter will weaken the flavor ... if it's deodorized. If the cocoa butter is pressed from the same beans that the chocolate is made from and the butter is not deodorized then the flavor isn't diluted.
When it comes to people handling or not handling the non-fat cocoa solids, there are taste and texture issues. If you make cheap chocolate with cheap beans then reducing the amount of non-fat solids is necessary because they taste nasty. Cover up the nasty flavor by alkalizing, adding sugar, milk, and vanilla, and you have something that might be palatable, but does not have a whole lot of chocolate enjoyment to it - for me.
The point is to separate the two different tasting aspects, texture and flavor.
Please reply to my latest posts on the " Cocoa Butter and Cocoa Solids " thread.
Note: I guess that "Cocoa Solids" should have been "Non-fat cocoa solids".
Lowe:
The first link to The Nibble article is broken for me. The second one takes me to The Nibble glossary on chocolate.
The entry on cocoa butter contains a lot of inaccuracies - for example, there is more than one way to get cocoa butter from liquor. Hydraulic presses are one, expeller presses are another. I won't go on nitpicking the article because I will be here all night.
In pure cocoa mass, the only fat is cocoa butter. And yes, it is a vegetable fat, and no one whose opinion I defer to uses the phrase "cocoa fat" to refer to cocoa butter. So you can drop cocoa fat from your lexicon.
The Nibble entry is also inaccurate in that they refer to the "powder" as solids. Technically (and this is according to the USDA Standards of Identity), cocoa butter is a solid (it is solid at room temperature) and what we call powder is "non-fat cocoa solids."
When looking at an ingredients list, you have to list added things you add to the recipe. When you see an ingredients label that says cocoa mass, sugar, cocoa butter it means that the chocolate maker has added extra cocoa butter. If the ingredients list only cacao/cocoa beans, then the bar contains only the naturally occurring quantity of cocoa butter.
Cocoa mass and cocoa liquor are different names for the same thing. The non-fat part of cocoa mass is "non-fat cocoa solids." The fat part of the cocoa mass is cocoa butter. By definition, non-fat cocoa solids contain no fat; that's a technical definition, not a marketing/labeling definition.
I suppose cocoa butter and cocoa fat are synonymous - but you can clear up the confusion by not using cocoa fat. Cocoa butter has more than fat in it in the same way that butter has more than fat in it, though cocoa butter contains almost no water. Cocoa butter contains aromatic compounds (even if it has been deodorized there's still some aroma) and might also contain some teeny-tiny small particles of non-fat cocoa solids that can't be filtered out.
There is a correlation between cocoa butter content and texture, though this relationship is not necessarily straightforward when lecithin is factored in. If you eat a Bonnat chocolate bar you get a very soft, buttery mouth feel because there's a lot of extra butter in his chocolate (how much depends on how much occurs naturally). It's a stylistic choice and you may or may not like it. Another aspect of texture attributable to cocoa butter content is the "hardness" (melting point) of the cocoa butter. Butters with lower melting points are "softer" than butters with higher melting points.
HTH,
:: Clay
From Clay "FYI generally, cocoa butter is generally more expensive than cocoa powder- often much more expensive."
So why do think there's generally higher fat content in higher percentage bars? By adding extra cocoa butter the makers are decreasing their profit margin. It doesn't seem like it's for taste because IMO extra cocoa butter weakens the taste. But maybe the makers just think most people couldn't handle that much "non-fat cocoa solids". What's your opinion?
Clay,
Thanks. Using the most precise language possible helps to avoid confusion, so I'm all for using the most accurate terms possible.
Unfortunately, many people aren't that precise or use terms in the wrong way. I think I took my use of these terms from an article in The Nibble : "Cocoa butter is the natural vegetable fat present in the cacao bean. Beans are approximately 52% cocoa butter by weight (the amount varies by the variety of cacao bean ); the rest is cocoa solids"
My line of inquiry started with wondering if there was any correlation between fat content and my enjoyment level (designated by my rating). Thus far I haven't really found out any such correlation, but I still want to differentiate them. So overall a cacao bean has fat and non-fat. I'm trying to be even more precise than cocoa powder since that also has some fat in it. For example, the Mast Bros and Rogue Piura bars that I'm currently reviewing only list cacao/cocoa beans and sugar as their only ingredients. What are the best terms for the 2 components of the beans? How about "cacao fat" or just "fat" for one? What is the other part? Solids, powder, liquor, or mass all seem problematic since they actually have some fat. Is there any term for the non-fat part? It sounds like "non-fat cocoa solids" may be the closest even if that contains some fat.
BTW, I've also been using "cocoa butter" as synonymous with "cacao fat" although I guess they're not really identical. I assume that all of the fat is in the cocoa butter, but that cocoa butter has more than just fat. Is that accurate?
Thanks for your patient help with splitting hairs in this minutia.
Lowe:
Some terminology because I know you love this stuff.
What we think of as cocoa powder is what the industry technically calls "non-fat cocoa solids." Cocoa butter is also cocoa solids - so it's good to be careful in differentiating between the two when the goal is to be accurate and precise.
Cocoa powder almost always contains cocoa butter. A "high-fat" cocoa powder will consist of 20-24% fatby weight; a "low-fat" cocoa powder will consist of 10-12% fat by weight. It's really expensive (in part because it's time consuming) to go much lower than this. Cocoa powders making "non-fat" claims can do this because of labeling regulations that allow "non-fat" claims when the amount is below a certain threshold per serving (usually less than 1/2 gram).
FYI generally, cocoa butter is generally more expensive than cocoa powder- often much more expensive.
Thanks to both of you. I had been scratching my head about this for years, but had only recently thought to find some folks to compare notes.
I am a science nerd, so understanding that the consensus on migraines and chocolate was no biggie. I even get the conclusive "proof" is elusive. But the fact that certain bars, even in small amounts, seemed to drive me around the bend were what peaked my interest. I wondered if there was anything unique about their chemistry that might point into certain directions.
First, as far as caffeine is concerned, I am not really sure how to proceed. I drink coffee with little issue, unless I have a lot and then stop and get a withdrawl headache. But I know from my experiences with coffee that the molecules are somewhat different among different plants: kola nuts, yerba mate, tea, and even arabica versus robusta coffee all vary in how their xanthinealkaloid effect the CNS.
The chart Lowe provided was interesting. If anything, it pointed to cocoa solids as potential culprits. I'd have thought that cocoa butter would be cheaper, but perhaps the use of large amounts of solids in relatively inexpensive bars leads to low quality solids being used? I realize that 'cheaper' is almost totally meaningless, since bean variety, growing, and processing are all factors in the final product.
And I still hold out the prospect that there are additional flavorings added to these bars that are the true culprits.
Thanks for humoring me. Understand that chocolate love can be pretty painful for some of us some of the time!
In my experience, the general practice seems to be that the higher the overall percentage, the higher the relative percentage of cocoa butter (without increasing the cocoa solids much).
[My guess on why they do this is it that this it's for economic reasons. That assumes that cocoa butter is cheaper than solids.]
Nat is right on and extremely informative! Thanks for this excellent contribution.
Although my current understanding is that there is some debate about whether or not cacao seeds actually even contain caffeine. Nat, can you confirm that cacao seeds really do contain caffeine? Any external references that you have to validate it would be much appreciated.
FD, to add to what Nat said, I've been gathering data on the cocoa butter to cocoa solids amounts on bars that I've tasted. You might want to check my file on Choco Files called "Cocoa Butter and cocoa solids sorted alphabetically" to see if there any you've eaten. Then compare the amount of cocoa solids to try and find a pattern.
There doesn't seem to be a lot of scientific agreement on a) whether chocolate causes migraines for most migraine sufferers, and b) for those that chocolatedoes cause migraines for, which compound or compounds is causing it. Some say it may be from the caffeine, tyramine, or phenylethylamine. Caffeine is definitely lowered in the bean during fermentation so a longer fermented bean could be better for you if this is the cause, but no one I know writes their fermentation length on their packaging, except perhaps Claudio Corallo. Caffeine would also probably be higher in "longer bred" varieties like Criollo, but this could be subjective.
tyramine and phenylethylamine are such minor compounds in chocolate that I don't think anyone has studied how they differ in different varieties, origins, or fermentation lengths, and tyramine is found in so many other common foods like cheese, raspberries, and red wine that it would be hard to blame chocolate for upping your intake of this compound.
One things is for sure, the higher the percentage of cocoa solids in a bar, the more of these compounds they will have, but going from cacao percentage written on the packaging to cocoa solids is usually quite a puzzle since percentage is a sum of the cocoa solids and cocoa butter. There are a few posts on The Chocolate Life about how to attempt do this. I'd suggest you make a rough estimate of the cocoa solids of the brands that cause you problems vs. the ones that don't at the same cocoa percentage, and see if there's any correlation with migraine-causing ability.
You may want to check these sources:
Cephalalgia.1997 Dec;17(8):855-62;A double-blind provocative study of chocolate as a trigger of headache.
Marcus DA,Scharff L,Turk D,Gourley LM.
Ann Allergy Asthma Immunol.2003 Sep;91(3):233-40;Intolerance to dietary biogenic amines: a review.
Jansen SC,van Dusseldorp M,Bottema KC,Dubois AE.
Bletter, N. and D. Daly. 2006. " Cacao and its relatives in South America: An overview of taxonomy, ecology, biogeography, chemistry, and ethnobotany" in Cameron L. McNeil ed. Chocolate in Mesoamerica: A Cultural History of Cacao, University Press of Florida.
I should preface this by saying that migraine triggers are personal, so I might just be describing my own condition.
As a chocolate lover, I am vexed by the fact that some dark chocolates seem to be the sure path to migraines. I was wondering if anyone had any insight into what makes them that way. Oddly, for me certain brands and products are very, very likely to cause them while others do almost nothing. I know at some level these numbers are marketing, but I have found this variation among even the highest cacao chocolates.
The worst for me are very high cacao (85%) from more mass-market brands: Lindt, Cote d'Or, and Endangered Species. All but the smallest amounts of these will make me very ill. Whereas I can eat huge amounts of other brands, in either higher or lower cacao concentrations and I will be fine. Furthermore, there are flavors in common withthese bars that seem related and kind of tip me off to a potential migraine.
I wonder if anyone here who knows cocoa processing well can point to any ingredients or whatever that are problematic. My thoughts are that commercializing a high cacao % (again, I know it's marketing) at a low price point means some things are done that render the chocolate inedible to folks like me. Maybe vanilla, maybe agents to bind the bar, perhaps the high cacao means that hide their worst beans in them?
Anyway, just wondered if anyone had any ideas.
TAP Plastics sells all sorts of plastics including polycarbonate. They have many locations in CA, but should also ship elsewhere:
Hi, Great forum! Im a sculptor and designing lots of chocolate masters for creating molds.Im looking for a source of plain sheets of polycarbonate to make molds on a vacuum forming machine. anyone have a good source.
thanks
Eric
Richard - it's Beckett, not Beck.
The Science of Chocolate provides a good overview of chocolate basics and a tiny bit of history. If you do plan to go into production then the more complete version, which costs a couple of hundred dollars, is one of the definitive reference guides and is highly recommended.
Link to The Science of Chocolate (hardcover - Amazon)
Link to Industrial Chocolate Manufacture and Use (hardcover - Amazon)
:: Clay
:: Clay
Welcome, Jennifer!
I'm located in the Rocky Mountains....it's cold here too! Thank goodness for great chocolates that warm our hearts as well as our bellies! I'm pretty new myself but I have noticed that the members of "the chocolate life" are very friendly! I hope you'll enjoy this site as much as I have!
Life is full of twists and turns and around every one of them, I find chocolate. Or it finds me! I am a mere consumer/novice with an open mind to learning.
This year I hope to educate myself much better on this thing called chocolate.
My preference: Dark chocolate, bordering on black.
I live in the midwest U.S. and dang, it's cold here!
My daytime occupation is staff nurse in a busy intensive care unit at a rather large teaching hospital. By night, I am stir crazy! I like to mix and make things, ranging from cross stitch to sewing, to andmade olf-fashioned soap, to shampoo, conditioner and body lotion. My most current challenge was making homemade marshmallows.
I am thankful to be in the midst of seasoned pros and I look forward to learning a few things!
Hi. I am new here and by no means a chocolate maker. I am a chocolate melter.
By trade I am a nurse, but dabble in making various treats, soap, shampoo and the like. I am always wanting to learn something new.
I was hoping for a touch of sage advice on a project I wanted to try this winter. I would like to make hot chocolate on a stick and have the basic technique for assembling, but am having trouble figuring out which chocolate would be best to create the base out of. It has to melt readily and smoothly in warmed milk so that it turns into a creamy hot cocoa. The cheapo chocolate I had that I created my mock-ups out of is abominable. It doesn't melt into the milk, but rather looks like flecks of chocolate floating in the milk.
I'd like to make this into a "drop it in and stir it" type of treat. On a sort of related note, I'd like to dip my homemade marshmallows in a tad of chocolate and haven't found a decent type to make a smooth, shiney, not to brittle coating. Anybody with ideas? Thank you in advance!
